Democracy on the Line
Democracy. The word is bandied about these days. It’s election season in my country, and democracy is on the ballot. At least, that’s what both sides are saying. I speak of both sides because elections in the U. S. inevitably become binary.
Them or us.
To hear each side tell it, voting for the other would have apocalyptic consequences. A win on that side-- the other side, would be the end of democracy. The claim seems to ring hollow for a vast segment of the U. S. electorate.
Two hundred and thirty-seven years ago one of the authors of the U. S. Constitution, Ben Franklin, said about our newly-minted government, it “...can only end in despotism, as other forms have done before it, when the people shall become so corrupted as to need despotic government.”
Scene at the Signing of the U. S. Constitution
Image credit: Howard Chandler Christy: Public domain
Are we so corrupted?
There are anomalous signs. People are screaming that they want their vote to be counted. They want the election to be honest and fair. So it seems they do want democracy, or at least a representative government.
But then when a candidate promises to tear up the Constitution, the foundation of government, the document that guarantees the right to vote, these same people are unconcerned.
When a candidate promises to be a dictator “on day one”, these people are once again not alarmed.
When a candidate promises to consolidate power in a unitary executive, to personally take charge of the Justice Department and the military, to strip the Civil Service of its neutrality—the same people are encouraged.
The electorate wants its vote, it wants representation, and yet when there is a promise to strip government of the buffers that guarantee these things, that stand between the people and autocracy, there is applause.
What do I make of these anomalies? The people are not deaf. They do hear. Do they lack understanding? Do they labor under the misguided belief that when the buffers are removed only others will suffer, but their rights will be protected?
Perhaps that’s where Ben Franklin comes in. Perhaps that’s where the corruption resides. People are willing to take away the rights of others, as long as they themselves are protected.
And that’s where the ignorance comes in. If we create a tyrant, if we create a unitary executive with no protection of our rights, then we have forfeited democracy.
As I write these words I wonder, how did it come to pass that so many of us are willing to cede power to one individual?
The Battle of Trenton
More than two hundred years ago we wrested power from a tyrant, a monarch. We were a disorganized band, a heterogeneous people. We were not even unified in purpose. But we fought and bested a more powerful enemy.
We won with a great expenditure of blood and tears.
The government formed from the struggle was imperfect, to be sure. Once again I turn to Ben Franklin's words for illumination: “... there are several parts of this Constitution which I do not at present approve…”. The Constitution was a compromise. Neither the new country nor the authors were unified. One of the miracles of the document was that it was the product of different factions. It was designed to change as the country changed. It could accommodate the needs of a growing nation and conform to the shape of an evolving culture.
People, collectively, the electorate, amended the Constitution over the years--sometimes peacefully, sometimes through a bloody struggle. But never did a single individual, one person, decide that the document would not serve. Not until today were we ever threatened with such a possibility.
But now the threat exists, and a sizable chunk of the electorate not only tolerates but encourages this rupture with our history, and our birthright.
How did such a thing come to pass? Although supporters of this individual come from all walks of life, and all socioeconomic strata, I fault two essential entities. One is the power elite, a group of individuals who understand exactly what the autocratically-inclined presidential candidate promises. Members of this power elite support the candidate's success because they will profit if he wins.
I turn to the acknowledged father of a free market economy, Adam Smith, for elucidation of my proposition. Here are germane excerpts from his book, The Wealth of Nations : “Masters are always and everywhere in a sort of tacit, but constant and uniform combination…” and, “People of the same trade seldom meet together, but the conversation ends in a conspiracy against the public, or in some contrivance to raise prices.” or, “Whenever the legislature attempts to regulate the differences between masters and their workmen, its counselors are always the masters.”
Adam Smith
The candidate in the 2024 presidential election who promises to tear up the Constitution is the very candidate who promises to lower taxes for those whom Smith describes as ‘Masters’. These are the captains of industry. These are the billionaires, the owners of global business enterprises. Billionaires are strong supporters of the autocratically-inclined candidate. Billionaires own the media engines that propagate the candidate’s message, gloss over his flaws, and clean up his image.
Just this week, two billionaire owners of major newspapers overruled their editorial boards. The boards wanted to endorse the autocratically-inclined candidate's opponent. There were resignations from the editorial boards in protest, but that didn't change anything.
Acting alone, members of the Master class could not sway the election. But there is another entity, another block that is comprised of less successful, more poorly educated individuals. Members of this group are generally not well-schooled in history.
Edmund Burke (1729-1797), an Irish philosopher who has been described as the “philosophical fountainhead of modern conservatism”, believed that a well-ordered society has at its head a ‘natural aristocracy’. It is the function of the aristocracy, according to Burke, to govern the masses.
A large percentage of those who support this year's autocratically-inclined candidate would be relegated to the broad category described as 'the masses' by Burke. It would be their proper place in society to be ruled by the elite.
Why don’t people, Burke's 'masses', understand this? Why don’t they see that the faction in politics they support will work against their interests? The 'masses' are empowering an individual who is allied with interests that are contrary to their own.
A specific instance of this? Adam Smith explains how the organization of laborers--i.e., a union--is necessary to balance the combined power of employers. He states: "We rarely hear, it has been said, of the combinations of masters, though frequently of those of workmen...But whoever imagines, upon this account, that masters rarely combine, is as ignorant of the world as of the subject."
And yet, the autocratically-inclined, Constitution-shredding candidate favored by many in the working class has bragged about his history of union busting.
History, philosophy, political science—these are education disciplines disparaged by many, even in post-secondary institutions. In dismissing these subjects the question is asked, “What do we need them for? What is their utility?”
Vocational training, job preparation—this, it has been suggested, is the true purpose of education.
If that is true, if when we educate our children we funnel them through vocational programs without training their minds, then what we end up with is a population that can fix things and do things but that cannot think critically.
I turn to a British politician from the nineteenth century, Davies Giddy, for a Master class perspective. Giddy believed that education should be withheld from the poor. A poor person who was educated, according to Giddy, would not be a willing servant. Education would teach the poor to “...despise their lot in life, instead of making them good servants in agriculture and other laborious employments to which their rank in society had destined them.”
Davies Giddy
In 2023 U. S. News and World Report published an article entitled A National Concern: Student Scores Decline in History and Civics. In 2024 the same periodical published an article entitled, Alternatives to College. The article points out that the cost of a four year education was so high in the U.S. that it would never pay for itself over the lifetime of an average student’s career.
Given higher education cost, it does not seem a viable choice for many lower and middle class students. College is increasingly becoming a luxury reserved for the elite—those who are children of the Master class and who are being groomed themselves for life as a member of that class.
The rest of the students? Those in vocational programs? Davies Giddy might describe them as “good servants...(preparing for) laborious employments to which their rank in society had destined them.”
When these good servants, these laborers hear the drumbeat of a would-be autocrat, a true fascist, will they recognize the echo of a Mussolini, a Hitler? Without a schooling in history, will they recognize the tin promises of prosperity and order? Will they remember the tropes from the past that scapegoated groups, segments of the population labeled as a despised 'other'?
I fear they will not. Those echos reverberate in my country today. I recognize the same old arguments, the ones that worked in past governments, in another time--the ones that were reinforced by a cooperating media and a supportive oligarchic business class.
Democracy is indeed on the ballot this year, the presidential election of 2024. I don’t know if it can be saved.
Image credits:
Image 1, Signing of the Constitution: Howard Chandler Christy: Public domain
Image 2, Battle of Trenton: Charles McBaron, US Military Museum. Public domain
Image 3, Adam Smith: John Kay. Public domain
Image 4, Davies Giddy: Henry Howard, painting. John Thompson, engraving. Public domain
Demandingly persuasive and brilliantly argued.
You’ve hit the nail firmly on the proverbial head! I wish that this article could be syndicated throughout the world. I wish that all the “masses” had an opportunity to read your wonderfully wise words because your words cut through the chaff! Your words would make all the minions THINK!
Thank you my friend, @itsostylish.
It is so clear to me. The campaign of that person is a classic scam. I don't say the name because it is a trigger. I figure, if readers can guess who it is, by merely reading a description, then the folly of their choice will become clear. Who promises to tear up the foundational document of a democracy? Madness. Who promises to be a dictator? Unthinkable. But people hear the words and if they are associated with someone by that name, the words become acceptable.
I appreciate your endorsement. If only you could vote😂
Thank you, @theinkwell 🌷
I am a deeply political person but if you read my blog traditionally you won’t get that feel. I have kept it mostly out of hive, even during Covid (mostly). However, perhaps that is not a good idea. Perhaps we should speak up more regardless of the platform or location. We knew what happened during 2016 campaign. I think we sort of gave it away that year by not voting enough. We thought it would be easy and “deplorable” won’t be able to pull it. We were dead wrong and we created this monster by leaving the stage empty. Now it is so much harder.
I haven't been political on Hive at all. I really don't like conflict. But I have to take a stand, not a stand that is confrontational but one that elucidates a rational position. This won't move any votes. But I had to say it. When I read your post last night I was glad I had drafted this (it took a couple of days to write, to get the resources and quotes).
If we want other people to stand up, then I guess we have to be prepared to take the flack.
Thanks for commenting. Wishes us luck this year, although I am quite anxious about the signs out there.
(Made a mistake and upvoted/commented as Inkwell first😮--I was curating a story in that community)
Speaking up is required!
In that case I totally support your efforts - good luck, US deserves a better way
Thank you! We need it :)
This is brilliantly researched and laid out, @agmoore. As you know from the article I shared with you that I posted on Medium, I agree with you completely that democracy is on the ballot. A significant percentage of the population believes so. To your point, both sides are saying it for different reasons. But the arguments of the left-leaning folks stand up to criticism and fact-checking, whereas the others do not.
As we count down the days, I just hope more and more people come to their senses, and feel a terrible sense of discomfort when they consider the possibility that the angry, vindictive felon in the MAGA hat could be back in control again, and — even better — feel a sense of joy and anticipation that a woman with lengthy experience as a champion for all could make history as Madam President.
I tried to anchor it in facts (as you did in your essay). I intentionally don't name anyone. I just cite egregious acts. If readers can identify an individual with those acts, well, case closed.
I like the sound of that
Thanks very much for reading. I haven't given up hope yet.
How is Kamala a good candidate or president when she’s done quite literally nothing for the current term in her vice presidency? Before Biden was exposed as too unfit for anything she was the most unpopular Vice President in history, which is data (supposedly) from democrat people. What changed? She had zero policies that she stands on, she can’t hold her own if there’s no written speech for her. She has gotten caught numerous times on a teleprompter and has had massively edited, pre-recorded interviews. If you were saying Tulsi I could think you are absolutely on the mark - she’s a fantastic, strong woman and an excellent candidate. Harris is an absolute disaster and her running mate is surprisingly worse than she is. Being friends with school shooters? Seriously?
I’m by far more of a Ron Paul guy than I am Trump but in no way shape or form could I support a corporate puppet like Harris. She has absolutely zero qualities about her.
What has Harris done to “help out everyone”? Keeping people in jail to help fund the prison labor scheme that she did as AG? Casting the deciding vote on the fleecing of Medicare in the stimulus bill that screws seniors in a couple years?
I don’t know of any real examples of Harris in a positive light that is not just BS hopes and dreams. We need substance.
I'm not an argumentative person, @cmplxty. So if you're looking for an argument, don't look here. You are entitled to your opinions.
But I will share a few things.
First, here's an article sharing Kamala Harris's achievements: https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/elections/2024/07/26/kamala-harris-vice-president-accomplishments/74534954007/
Second, here's the article I referenced above, which goes into deep detail about why Trump should be disqualified from ever running for office, and why I believe Kamala Harris is going to make an excellent president and will help our country come together again: https://medium.com/@jaynalocke/u-s-election-2024-undecided-independent-pick-the-candidate-with-the-moral-compass-189f2775bb08
And finally, I have a question for you. Without looking it up, can you list the achievements of Mike Pence? Maybe you can. It's mainly a rhetorical question to get you to think about how much we ever even hear about what a vice president is getting done. They tend to be behind the scenes.
I love Kamala Harris's vision, her integrity, what she stands for, the plans and policies she has laid out, her belief in women's rights and civil rights, and the fact that she intends to be a president for all U.S. citizens. I also love Tim Walz. (He's my governor and I think he's amazing.) And for the record, I am passionate and unwavering about my stance on all this, and have already voted.
All the best to you.
Very well written. I don't hide my politics, but I also don't explicitly highlight them very often around here just to avoid disagreement and arguments with most of Hive, as the prevailing political direction of most people around here always seems quite opposite mine. But as @azircon puts in one of the comments below "speaking up is required". That is always true, but it is becoming more and more true as we reach a critical point. I should also be more vocal. This is a great post.
This is because in today’s world silence is taken as weakness. If you are empathetic it is taken as weakness. If you are immigrant earnings 10X national average and paying 20X in taxes you are asked to “go back”! America is called an occupied country! I wonder how many Americans actually seen and lived in an occupied country or even read about one. It is so easy to feed lies to people these days! They enjoy it and cheer! What happened to my country?
I think this is a great community (Rant, Complain, Talk) for expressing political opinions. As I looked around for an appropriate forum I was comfortable posting it here. I had to go back and edit to make sure I wasn't painting people on the other side with an overly broad brush. I tried to keep my piece deliberate and fact-based.
Thanks so much for commenting and supporting. These last days before the election are nail-biters.
I can be very frank with you here. I work for Big Oil in Texas, and this is common knowledge here on chain. As you can imagine I have many friends and co-workers who will vote the Republican ticket. I typically have great open discussions with them. Most of them are very nice and can take a bullet for me. I even have a few with 'bunkers' and I kid you not. If the end of the world comes, I know where I am going with my family. The reason I said all this is having an opposing political view is NOT a problem, it was never been a problem until recently. Now a lot of people are so dug in that they are beginning to tune out the other side, which is a shame. We are all Americans regardless of our political views, background and ancestry; in this great country, and we can have a conversation regardless of our political view. We need to promote this, which almost have become a 'novel concept'! That is the sad thing about it.
I moved into my current house about a year ago. My next door neighbor--we share a fence--introduced himself. Then, a few days later he brought over some goodies with a note. He told us his name and his wife's name. He gave us his phone number. If we need anything, call. He is a notary, he informed us. He would be happy to offer his services if we needed them. He is the nicest person, a great neighbor.
A while back, my neighbor put out a flag, a huge flag, announcing his preferred candidate for presidency. I was shocked. How could such a nice person think that way? Then I realized how foolish and narrow I was. People have different opinions. I don't understand it, but I accept it.
He's still a lovely man, but I'm not telling him who I'm voting for :))
Or maybe some nice spring day next year you may want to invite him for a dinner or maybe make a dish for him. Maybe you will find a lifelong friend. People are usually good and we are supposed to build bridges not burn them.
On a related note
I have so much to say about this, I've been watching this 3 hour podcast of him with Joe Rogan. I normally avoid him like the plague but in this case I make an exception.
I don't trust the media in America at all, I want to hear it from Trump himself in full context, not clipped. So many times I've heard people panic with fear and disgust at something Trump has said, only to find it was out of context and it was, for example, just a spicy joke. Or, they sneakily misquote him as saying 'they're rapists' instead of what he actually said, 'their rapists' (which makes a huge difference).
I have seen so much lies and slander against him, that I can only take his own words now. And, yes, I disagree with him a lot, I think he spouts a fair amount of BS, I think he is simply wrong about many things, and I disagree about many things. I think he could reign in his crazy talk a bit if he could read a room, and I think he probably is indeed a multi-criminal in various ways, of which he has been adequately punished at least up to this ongoing point. I could say the exact same thing about a majority of politicians in the UK government.
I do not think, in any capacity whatsoever, that democracy is on the line, nor do I think he is in any way, shape or form, dictatorial. I think this is kinda gross, media lies designed to make everybody panic, year after year and it hurts me to see that happen. Trump is absolutely right about that one thing if nothing else; the enemy is the media. I do think for better or worse, Trump loves the USA and its democratic process. He seems to make that quite clear to me.
I could write you a very long list of examples I've collected of the slander against him, the defamation, the clearly illegal libel and falsifications. The stuff that has, ultimately, directly lead to multiple presidential assassinations.
Even after that, the opponents didn't learn and immediately start calling him a Hitler supporter - like that isn't going to 'incite violence' against him. But oh that's totally fine from the democrats, of course.
Oh, Trump didn't accept the election results? Neither did Hillary, Bush, Nixon. Democrats have claimed the ballot machines are not to be trusted in the past. John Oliver did a whole segment of his show about how broken they are and not to be trusted. Until they won of course, then they were the most secure things in the world.
Oh he said 'fight like hell' inciting violence? There's entire compilations of democrats saying those exact words, sometimes even suggesting 'with violence'. Silence on that, though - they're only saying it metaphorically, while Trump really means it even though seconds later he says 'peacefully and patriotically make your voices heard'.
See what I mean? It's vile.
Would I vote for him if I were American? Oof, not sure. At the end of the day he still is a lot of bad things; a liar, a moron, a criminal. And more generally the Republicans don't really stand for my political ideas so it wouldn't make much sense for me to do so.
But, I'd need to weigh up how much the genuine bad things he's done over the years play a role in the fate of the country and its massive global responsibility. Does a fraudulent University affect peace in the Middle East? I don't think so. Does saying 'Grab them by the p**sy' have any influence on a ceasefire in Ukraine? Not really... Who is more likely to reduce the insurmountable deficit?
I would not vote Democrat even though in principle I would if they were who they're supposed to be. But as far as I'm concerned, they're not. They're corrupt, slimy liars just as much as Republicans.
In the end... I probably wouldn't vote. The USA is going to steamroll ahead of the world with rapid success regardless. It's just placed in too perfect a position with extremely productive and intelligent civilians. The drama on top isn't gonna make much different, ultimately.
But I say with confidence as somebody who watches politics every day - You needn't worry about democracy. It's gonna be fine in the USA. In the UK... well, that's a luxury we don't get to enjoy nearly as much.
(Honestly I probably know more about US poltiics than UK lol... UK politics is so friggin' boring)
(second edit: I know this doesn't acknowledge the rest of your post - I think it's automatically assumed I will find it a top Hive article once I finish, I just had to make a pit stop and get all that out in the open, sorry XD)
Hello @mobbs,
Nice to see you here, and I’m happy you weighed in on the conversation.Here are a few thoughts on the subject of the 2024 U.S. election and the candidate you have named.
1: I never mentioned Trump. What was it about my blog that made you think of Trump? The dangers I suggest are related to an individual who has engaged in or expressed some undemocratic ideas/actions. What was it that made you identify those ideas/actions with Trump? However, since you brought up Trump, some objectively offered facts. Please keep in mind that I believe if someone says they want to do something, there's a good chance they mean what they say.
2.Trump suggested ignoring sections of the Constitution . The U. S. government is a little different from that in the UK. In this country, the Constitution is a revered document. It is the foundation upon which all our laws and the structure of government is based. Every law passed must conform to the Constitution. Many of them don’t, but ultimately they can be challenged all the way up to the Supreme Court, which judges their validity based on the Constitution. We are governed by the rule of law. The Supreme Court makes mistakes. It reverses itself. But when it rules, that ruling is the law of the land across the country. Even local laws about dog catchers, for example, have to potentially pass muster when assessed against rights guaranteed in the Constitution. That document stands between us and tyranny. Donald Trump finds that principle inconvenient. He wants to throw out the parts of the Constitution that don’t suit him. It would be hard to explain to someone not raised under the Constitution the gravity of such a position. It is contrary to everything we believe as citizens. When we go to war, we don’t fight for a president. We fight to defend the Constitution. When a president is sworn in, he swears to protect and defend the Constitution. When Trump suggests he would not do this, he disqualifies himself for office. (Republican [reaction](https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-trump/republicans-react-trumps-call-terminate-constitution-rcna60224 to Trump's stand on the Constitution).
Trump wants to gut the Civil Service System. Sometime around the early 20th century, laws were passed to remove corruption from hiring practices in the government. There is a class of workers, a small group, classified as political. These may be hired and fired at will. They are loyal to the person who hired them. Everyone else, thousands and thousands of people, the vast network of government workers, are loyal to the government, not an individual. They have to pass a uniform test in order to be hired. They can’t be fired without cause. This is a deliberately apolitical structure, immune to the change in party or leader. The system eliminated what used to be called the Spoils System. Trump doesn’t like this. He wants everyone loyal to him. He wants to fire thousands and thousands of workers, so he can hire people who will owe their jobs only to him. They could be fired at will. This move would ‘clean’ government back more than 100 years.
We have a Justice Department and FBI in the U.S. federal government. These are supposed to be independent of the president, although they are part of the executive branch. Trump wants to remove that independence. He wants both the Justice Department and the FBI to be answerable to him—his personal judiciary and law enforcement agency. He wants, essentially, the powers of a king.
In the past, U. S. presidents have been answerable for criminal acts committed while in office. This is why Richard Nixon resigned. His actions during Watergate potentially exposed him to prosecution for crimes. As a matter of fact, when Gerald Ford, his vice president, assumed office, one of the first things he did was to pardon Nixon of his crimes. This year the Supreme Court of the U.S. came down with a decision. It granted presidents immunity for all acts committed in office that are related to their official functions. Nixon wouldn’t have had to resign under this rule. He couldn’t have been prosecuted. This virtually blanket immunity makes the character of the president paramount. If the president is cad, if he is criminally inclined, there is nothing we can do about it.
This president Trump, as he envisions the office, will now have immunity, the FBI and Justice Department at his beck and call, a cadre of government workers loyal only to him, no Constitutional constraint--this president Trump promises to throw journalists in jail who criticize him and to remove the licenses of media companies that didn’t support him.
As for election deniers in the past: You mention Clinton, Gore, and Nixon. In each case, the named loser facilitated a peaceful transition of power. Clinton congratulated Trump the very next day. Nixon did not believe he lost but as VP, ultimately presided over the certification of the results that gave the presidency to Kennedy. Gore challenged the election, all the way to the Supreme Court, but when the Court decided in Bush’s favor, Gore accepted the decision and encouraged his followers to do the same for the sake of the country.
As for January 6: That is currently in the process of being adjudicated. However, I did go through his speech on the Ellipse that day. It is turgid, so it is hard to get through. Any objective reader (I am not) would understand this speech to be a call to arms. Not only is he priming the crowd with a list of wrongs and prompting them to act, but he wants them to have weapons. When security screened the crowd for weapons he told security to let the armed people in. They’re not here to hurt me, he said. He wanted an incensed, armed mob to march on the capital.
I watched that riot as it unfolded. So did he, from the White House. When he was told the riot was underway, he sent out a tweet that inflamed them further: “Mike Pence didn’t have the courage to do what should have been done.” .
I copied the more incendiary portions of the speech here, and left out the parts where he makes his case that the election was stolen. That case was tried in 60 different courts, and found lacking. You can read the speech yourself.
My excerpts:
...these people are not going to take it any longer. They’re not going to take it any longer.
All of us here today do not want to see our election victory stolen by emboldened radical-left Democrats, which is what they’re doing. And stolen by the fake news media. That’s what they’ve done and what they’re doing. We will never give up, we will never concede.
We will not take it anymore and that’s what this is all about. And to use a favorite term that all of you people really came up with: We will stop the steal.
We will not let them silence your voices. We’re not going to let it happen, I’m not going to let it happen.
(Audience chants: “Fight for Trump.”)
Thank you.
And he looked at Mike Pence, and I hope Mike is going to do the right thing. I hope so. I hope so.
We’re gathered together in the heart of our nation’s capital for one very, very basic and simple reason: To save our democracy.
We want to go back and we want to get this right because we’re going to have somebody in there that should not be in there and our country will be destroyed and we’re not going to stand for that.
And Mike Pence is going to have to come through for us, and if he doesn’t, that will be a, a sad day for our country because you’re sworn to uphold our Constitution.
Now, it is up to Congress to confront this egregious assault on our democracy. And after this, we’re going to walk down, and I’ll be there with you, we’re going to walk down, we’re going to walk down.
Anyone you want, but I think right here, we’re going to walk down to the Capitol, and we’re going to cheer on our brave senators and congressmen and women, and we’re probably not going to be cheering so much for some of them.
Because you’ll never take back our country with weakness. You have to show strength and you have to be strong. We have come to demand that Congress do the right thing and only count the electors who have been lawfully slated, lawfully slated.
I know that everyone here will soon be marching over to the Capitol building to peacefully and patriotically make your voices heard.
But we’ve done it quickly and we were going to sit home and watch a big victory and everybody had us down for a victory. It was going to be great and now we’re out here fighting.
Today we see a very important event though. Because right over there, right there, we see the event going to take place. And I’m going to be watching. Because history is going to be made. We’re going to see whether or not we have great and courageous leaders, or whether or not we have leaders that should be ashamed of themselves throughout history, throughout eternity they’ll be ashamed.
But the only way that can happen is if Mike Pence agrees to send it back. Mike Pence has to agree to send it back.
(Audience chants: “Send it back.”)
And many people in Congress want it sent back.
And think of what you’re doing. Let’s say you don’t do it. Somebody says, “Well, we have to obey the Constitution.” And you are, because you’re protecting our country and you’re protecting the Constitution. So you are.
But think of what happens. Let’s say they’re stiffs and they’re stupid people, and they say, well, we really have no choice.
But think of this. If you don’t do that, that means you will have a president of the United States for four years, with his wonderful son. You will have a president who lost all of these states. Or you will have a president, to put it another way, who was voted on by a bunch of stupid people who lost all of these states.
You will have an illegitimate president. That’s what you’ll have. And we can’t let that happen.
It’s all part of the comprehensive assault on our democracy, and the American people are finally standing up and saying no. This crowd is, again, a testament to it.
I did no advertising, I did nothing. You do have some groups that are big supporters. I want to thank that, Amy, and everybody. We have some incredible supporters, incredible. But we didn’t do anything. This just happened. Two months ago, we had a massive crowd come down to Washington. I said, “What are they there for?” “Sir, they’re there for you.”
We have nothing to do with it. These groups are for, they’re forming all over the United States.
Make no mistake, this election was stolen from you, from me and from the country.
So, I mean, I could go on and on about this fraud that took place in every state, and all of these legislatures want this back. I don’t want to do it to you because I love you and it’s freezing out here. But I could just go on forever. I can tell you this.
(Audience chants: “We love you.”)
So when you hear, when you hear, while there is no evidence to prove any wrongdoing, this is the most fraudulent thing anybody has, this is a criminal enterprise.
The Republicans have to get tougher. You’re not going to have a Republican Party if you don’t get tougher. They want to play so straight. They want to play so, sir, yes, the United States. The Constitution doesn’t allow me to send them back to the States. Well, I say, yes it does, because the Constitution says you have to protect our country and you have to protect our Constitution, and you can’t vote on fraud. And fraud breaks up everything, doesn’t it? When you catch somebody in a fraud, you’re allowed to go by very different rules.
So I hope Mike has the courage to do what he has to do. And I hope he doesn’t listen to the RINOs and the stupid people that he’s listening to.
We must stop the steal
Together, we will drain the Washington swamp and we will clean up the corruption in our nation’s capital. We have done a big job on it, but you think it’s easy. It’s a dirty business. It’s a dirty business. You have a lot of bad people out there.
As this enormous crowd shows, we have truth and justice on our side. We have a deep and enduring love for America in our hearts. We love our country.
We have overwhelming pride in this great country and we have it deep in our souls. Together, we are determined to defend and preserve government of the people, by the people and for the people.
And again, most people would stand there at 9 o’clock in the evening and say I want to thank you very much, and they go off to some other life. But I said something’s wrong here, something is really wrong, can have happened.
And we fight. We fight like hell. And if you don’t fight like hell, you’re not going to have a country anymore.
So we’re going to, we’re going to walk down Pennsylvania Avenue. I love Pennsylvania Avenue. And we’re going to the Capitol, and we’re going to try and give.
The Democrats are hopeless, they never vote for anything. Not even one vote. But we’re going to try and give our Republicans, the weak ones because the strong ones don’t need any of our help. We’re going to try and give them the kind of pride and boldness that they need to take back our country.
So let’s walk down Pennsylvania Avenue.
I want to thank you all. God bless you and God Bless America.
This reply took a while. I had to look up a bunch of stuff. But this is important. There is so much more, but I'm tired :))
Hope you continue to be happy with your lovely wife,@mobbs.
this comment is worth a post. Totally worth a post
Thank you! It all seems so clear to me, and yet, as we have said,to others maybe not. All you and I can do is make the case as we see it.
Oops sorry I got busy I replied in detail but got busy before I could finish and I guess the moment has passed now… I reckon I’ll instead give a general reply in good spirit rather than covering every point:
Sorry if that’s the case! It just sounded like very specific talking points I can practically quote that are against trump but I guess they’re just crossed wires.
Well, I think regarding Trump, it really does depend on one’s priorities, perspectives and experiences, and I think these are not frivolous things and all sides have some validity.
One massive point I’m totally in agreement with Trump – the Media is the enemy. All sides. I’ll die on that hill!
There is indeed a gigantic laundry list of misinformation and lies targeted at him which have, ultimately, lead to a double assassination attempt due to the desperation of one side to ‘defeat’ the evil opponent. Here’s just a few I can think of:
Capitol Riots. This one is complex.
I do agree much was done wrong here, far too deep to go into details, BUT, I noticed your excerpts were misleading, coming from the Associated Press. Where you cited, for example:
Video footage of this speech is markedly different:
How much irreparable damage in the mainstream perception of this man has occurred from that single manipulation of reality? To imply that he's talking physically weak because they're going to engage in combat. It’s mind boggling to think how much unnecessary hatred and fear has been stewing due to media lies. Further, you do cite this:
People also foamed at the mouth of terror, stating his incitement of violence by using the word ‘fight’, and yet this is frequently used by everybody as a figurative term, and understood as such until it’s convenient to misrepresent it.
Overall, what I don’t like is this general consensus that the left-wing media is the generally intelligent, morally correct arbiters of truth, while the right are dumb conspiracy theorists who all love Hitler and hate gay people. In my mind, left and right no longer makes sense, it's simply tribalism. This is why people on the 'left' call black people who support Trump 'race traitors' among many other awful things. They're not following the tribe of their skin colour.
Nobody in media will tell you that Trump's stance on LGBT rights is historically quite pro, and left-leaning.
So, when it comes to what people hear on the media, well, what do they trust? What CAN they trust? The answer is very little. People need to decide for themselves what truly matters.
There are more policies he put in place than I can count which democrats either straight up give bipartisan support or quietly continue on their own in silent bipartisan support. (deleting my long list for brevity but I wrote about 20)
He’s not all bad. He’s certainly bad, but so are democrats. It all depends how you read it. From his personality and history of lies and corruption, to his overall presidential policies, I don’t like him and so, I likely wouldn’t vote at all.
But, I just can’t see this desperate claim that he’s a nazi, a white supremacist racist, a dictator, friends with Putin, ready to throw the country into civil war. It just doesn’t match reality. If people want to vote for him, I think that’s fine and valid.
Ultimately, the USA is going to be fine no matter who is in power, when compared to the rest of the world, which is falling apart at a much faster rate than the USA which at certain points has recently seen growth even faster than CHINA. The people over there are smart, productive, innovative and creative, and they sit on a hotbed of resources the rest of the world spend their days green with envy about.
Ideologically, the USA is very sick, from an outside perspective, and needs healing.
This is NOT going to happen while Trump is in power, which is to me one of the main arguments against voting for him. But at the same time, his provocative, controversial style does bring to light what was once silently hidden.
Perhaps that has value to many.
I hope I don't come across as 'I know more about a country I never visited' - I couldn't genuinely think that really. But it is true I'm very engaged in American politics most days, more so than boring British politics. My whole adult life has been abroad, all my friends have been American. I think I'm at least fairly well-versed, albeit missing nuance one can only get by a real lived experience.
At the end of the day, I just want people to respect each others' views and choices, without tacking on a doomsday narrative behind everything!
An interesting read and you make a fine case against democracy:)
Burke, and Giddy, and most politicians through the ages would agree with you. If they let people vote at all, it probably wouldn't be you or me (not rich enough and wrong gender 😄)
I’m a Ron Paul guy the more I age than anything.
I think you may be potentially blinded by the fact that the massive corporate donors have switched sides. It used to be republicans that got the giant businesses but now it’s by far the democrats and it’s taking a lot of people by surprise but also as many identify with the party more than the candidates, they are unprepared to face the truth that the left is not what you think it is.
Can I also say that this is all bullshit - left, right, democrat, republicans. It’s all a farce. We are fucking Americans regardless and that is supposed to be above all. We can disagree on things for various reasons but at the end of the day we all live here and we have FAR more in common than we do not in common. Sadly this two party shit is the ultimate control mechanism - much easier to get people to fight if it’s just two sides and no options. If there’s 5 sides then it’s not as easy to control people.
I think the issue as well is people keep calling this a democracy. It’s not it’s a republic and that’s sadly forgotten.
At the end of the day, the average citizen loses either way because of these two pre-selected candidates. I have a little hope that if Trump wins we lose slower than if Harris does. Harris is an abysmal chameleon and has zero substance. No policies that are good and her own, she’s actually copied a lot of Donald’s which is comical and kind of pathetic.
I’m wondering - do you have an issue right now that the country is absolutely NOT run by the president? He is clearly compromised, mentally and physically. It really disturbs me that the facade of a president is pushed so heavily but we have one right now that is so incompetent that he lets his wife run meetings that historically have only been a presidential task. He’s sleeping around 4PM which is a clear sign of “sun-downing” in dementia patients. If we get attacked at 3am, is that failing human going to be able to step up? Absolutely not. The managerial class is running the country right now and it’s actually quite terrifying because they are NOT elected for that task - yet they do it. I know there are hundreds and thousands of appointees that are needed to run the day to day so it gets managed regardless but at least with others, there is a semblance of ruling where this dude is completely toast.
Wow! You are angry.
I don't know if I would call it angry, I am tired of the gaslighting and intentional destruction of the country. It's the uniparty at the end of the day, and who is the current spokesperson of it. Harris is the current spokesperson and will be replaced by some other shmuck.
We are having everything siphoned off of us. Hundreds of billions to a country like Ukraine - yet Maui residents get 750$ to compensate them for the fucking destruction of their entire life? North Carolina residents the same? Ohio people got basically nothing after the destruction of the chemicals from the train.
I am tired of the citizens being dead last in terms of priority for their well being and stability. Harris and her ilk have offered absolutely nothing except abortions and some foolish words that mean nothing at the end of the day. Harris has ZERO substance to her policies and strategies, that is what disturbs me the most. "How are you going to control food prices?" is a basic question, yet we get a non-answer. Price controls, by the way, are a communist strategy and fail every single time.
Hello @complexity,
I can't respond to broad, generalized statements--ex: gaslighting and intentional destruction of the country; citizens being dead last in terms of priority for their well being and stability--but when you raise specifics I can look into that.
I checked the FEMA site. As of August, 2024, these are the numbers:"To date, FEMA has approved over $56.1 million to help 7,141 people recover through the Individual Assistance program, including more than $33.8 million for Housing Assistance and more than $22.2 million for Other Needs Assistance paid directly to survivors." Also, "on track to provide approximately $3 billion towards Maui wildfire recovery. This includes more than $1.3 billion in mission assignments to expedite recovery through debris removal and disposal, temporary housing, school construction, and infrastructure repair." There might be issues with accounting and distribution, but no amount of figure fiddling would bring the sum down to $750.
As of Oct 16, 2024, these are the numbers from the FEMA site. " More than $100 million in FEMA individual assistance has been approved for North Carolina households affected by Tropical Storm Helene." Also, "FEMA has made individual assistance available to 39 North Carolina counties and tribal members of the Eastern Band of Cherokee Indians.
FEMA’s Individuals and Households Program has approved over $102 million including: $18.6 million to help homeowners and renters to pay for emergency home repairs, home replacement or other housing needs. $83.6 million to help with other serious disaster-related needs, like moving expenses, childcare and disaster-related dental, medical or funeral expenses". Again, one can manipulate numbers, but no way that would turn out to be $750 per person.
Additionally, you write that Harris, et al.:
You out of hand dismiss a profoundly important issue. You dismiss what for many is the single most important issue in this election. The impact of the Dobbs decision (result of Trump's deliberate policy) has shaken women across the nation. It not only endangers the health of every woman of child-bearing age (who may become pregnant), but even has extended to potential travel restrictions. It affects not only women, but their daughters, nieces and grandchildren. It affects the men who are related in some way to these women. The ramifications of Dobbs are life-altering.
I don't like arguing. It's why I didn't become a lawyer. I'm a peaceful, deliberate person, but I do have passionately held beliefs. For a more extended explanation of why someone might vote for Harris over Trump, you could read my reply to @mobbs, on this blog.
I hope we both one day get the government we and everyone else deserves. I don't see that government anywhere in the world today.
Peace to you, @complexity, and me too :)
!PIZZA
I just watched it 🌟
Thank you very much :)
I find the animation quite instructive, and a group in the German-speaking world has dubbed the whole film to make it accessible here too, great work the film.
Can I ask you what you think of Trump? What do you think of his programme? Trust the Plan.
Hi.
I'm not sure what 'programme' and 'Plan' you refer to. He will not have my vote. An explanation for that decision may be found in my response to a comment by @mobbs, above.
You live in Germany? What is your impression of the election over there?
Thanks for stopping by and adding your perspective.
Thank you for your reply.
Yes, I am from Germany and tend to be a non-voter. I became aware of your post because for some years now I have had the feeling that democracy has never existed since I have been on this earth, but that in this system that the private banking society has set up, it only serves to appease the people in order to pretend to have a possible choice. These parties are as little different from each other as they were 100 years ago, they are one and the same only in a different colour. It's the same in the USA as it is here in Germany.
I look at your elections from a biblical perspective, because if Trump wins, then he may be the beast from Revelation that suffered a wound and then rises to great power and gives it to another beast.
That could be A Elon Musk - technocrat
or Pope Francis who is a Jesuit just like Trump and they make common cause with the cabalistic sect from Russia just like our German government.
I think the combination of the richest man in the world--someone who controls satellite transmission, space travel and a powerful media platform--with an imperial US.president, that is a thing to be feared.
Yes, I agree - the combination sounds like a global catastrophe.
I'm pretty good at seeing what's not immediately obvious, so I can recognise these dark structures very well.
I already didn't like the old world order where they rained bombs on us, and I don't like the current show of New World Order psychological warfare either.
There have been some observations in recent years that I have been able to research, about laws that I find very questionable and about the arming of the Fema camps. can you tell me more about this?
(National Defense Authorization Act and USA PATRIOT Act)- They devalue the constitution in the name of national security, but what if the enemy is in the ranks that decide this and see themselves in danger to protect themselves with the sentences?
FEMA Camps? Nothing sinister there. FEMA sets up temporary housing after a disaster. Nobody is forced to live in temporary housing. They are not camps, like concentration camps. They are areas where trailers might be placed until better accommodations can be found. Nobody is being armed there. I think this might be an Internet rumor.
Patriot Act. Interesting name. I value the protections written in the Constitution. Whenever anyone tries to get around them, I'm not comfortable. That's why the election next week is so important. The president has so much power now. Donald Trump has had a rehearsal--his first term. Then he didn't know how to exercise the levers of power. I think he was surprised to be elected.
This time, he'll know his way around. Knows exactly what to do to get what he wants. It's going to be a disaster.
Then it is also a concentration camp, just under a different name. However, the German information sections state that the Fema camps have been equipped with weapons and mass graves in the last 5 years.
I think that Trump knows exactly what he is doing, because his connections indicate that he is playing along with the big players and is not as stupid as he looks.
I don't know what that is, but these camps don't exist.
$PIZZA slices delivered:
@themyscira(1/5) tipped @agmoore
It's such a difficult choice in America right now as neither candidate will fix the economy and both are lying through their teeth.
Each voter has to decide who will do the least harm to the economy. And each voter will have to decide, even with the lies (they are politicians), who will do the least harm them (the voter). That's what it comes down to in every election, doesn't it?
The past few election cycles certainly seem to lead us to such a conclusion of avoiding the worst instead of choosing the best. The issue is there are only two somewhat equally terrible options and roughly half the country will be disappointed in either scenario. It's nice to be from a country where you can vote for a coalition government when presented with such a conundrum.
I personally don't think they are equally terrible. I think one is far more potentially harmful than the other. One at least promises an agenda I agree with. The other does not. One does not threaten to pull down the structure of government, the other does threaten this (Civil Service, Constitution, etc.). On promises to try and make abortion and healthcare available. The other has managed to take the right to abortion away from millions of women and threatens to undermine our national health insurance program. One wants tax cuts for the middle class. One wants tax cuts for billionaires.
Neither may get these initiatives through, but at least we can vote for what they promise to do.
They are not the same, actually.
Democracy is at stake in the United States because these people want to stay in power, together with the businessmen to continue manipulating the people, who cannot study because of the high cost, this power struggle is regrettable. In my country elections were made and we all went out to vote in a democracy disguised as a dictatorship because one of the candidates was declared winner without showing the results for each state, they gave a final result and we are still waiting for them to publish the results on the website of the National Electoral Council as they always did in past elections, and the vast majority we reject the results, but the one who opposes this is arrested, I hope you have an excellent weekend friend for you and your family.
You recognize the danger in the U.S. because you are struggling to get back your democracy. Many people in my country don't realize how easy it is lose democracy and how it is to get back.
I hope you have peace my friend and a better future in your country. Also, have a great weekend with your lovely family. I love the pictures you share of them :)