Incest - pros and cons

Dear Hiveans,

Today a post about an ugly topic that has very severe consequences: incest / inbreeding

Downsides of inbreeding are

  • increased risk of genetic disorders
  • higher infant and child mortality
  • reduced genetic diversity
  • significantly lower IQ of 2.5 to 10 IQ points (source)

I've often heard questions / statements like “How can incest still be a thing today?” or “I really don’t understand how, today, there are still forced or arranged marriages”, mostly from well-off people from the “developed world”.

Here is my theory for why incest and forced marriages still exist and can even be rational in certain cases:

Imagine living in a very poor environment where the geographical conditions (soil fertility, climate, remote mountainous, desert, or disaster-prone zones) are so inhospitable that you can hardly feed yourself. That has 2 consequences. First the population density will be rather low and mobility is limited which reduces opportunities for finding unrelated partners. Second, this poverty leads families to prefer consanguineous unions to keep property or wealth within the kinship group. Low education levels and lack of awareness about genetic risks also contribute. This creates a low-trust society, where generalized trust in strangers or institutions is minimal.

So in such circumstances it may be rational for a girl to marry her cousin (more trust) or to let her father choose her spouse.

All of this creates a feedback loop: low trust encourages inbreeding (high consanguinity rates) to preserve family bonds, which in turn limits broader social integration and perpetuates clannish, low-trust dynamics.

Inbreeding and geography

Here you have a map with inbreeding statistics. The darker the blue, the more inbreeding.
image.png source. more data here

It's a fact that those regions with much inbreeding are rather inhospitable (but historically haven't always been so). And, there are a lot of countries with similar or lower wealth (e.g. Bolivia) that have very low inbreeding rates.

Let's now take a look at the following geographical distribution:

Instead of speculating about certain similarities here, I let grok (AI) run a correlation analysis:

Based on data compiled from global sources on religious demographics and consanguinity rates (primarily cousin marriages as a proxy for inbreeding), a correlation analysis yields a Pearson correlation coefficient of approximately 0.85. This indicates a strong positive correlation: countries with higher percentages of Muslim populations tend to have higher rates of consanguinity.

The Catholic Church banned first-cousin marriage in 1215 (Fourth Lateran Council). And more restrictive limits have been in place before. Jewish communities have historically prevented inbreeding through a combination of religious laws, cultural practices, and, in modern times, genetic screening and education. They have recorded ancestry since biblical times (c. 1200 BCE), partially to mitigate genetic risks associated with inbreeding. Islam on the other hand permits first-cousin marriage, and even Mohammed's daughter Fatima married her first cousin.

What are the reasons for this incest-prone culture in Islamic countries (which remains even when people from those countries move to the UK, for example)? I don't know. But I'm sure this demented culture is one root of so many conflicts, not least in Gaza, Judea and Samaria.

Advantages of incest

Besides the disadvantages of incest, what are the advantages? I cannot rule out the possibility that sarcasm (more or less well hidden) is at play here.

  • less trust issues
  • lower costs for higher education of the offspring
  • lower probability of divorce (as expectations of the partner are lower)
  • For an incestuous marriage fewer people have to be invited. So less people have to travel which lowers the carbon footprint.
  • what else?

Have a great day,
zuerich

PS How many followers will I lose by this post?

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Liebe Hiver,

heute ausnahmsweise mal ein kontroverser Post, ein Thema mit schwerwiegenden Folgen: Inzest / Inzucht

Die Nachteile von Inzucht sind

  • erhöhtes Risiko für genetische Störungen
  • höhere Säuglings- und Kindersterblichkeit
  • verringerte genetische Vielfalt
  • deutlich niedrigerer IQ von 2,5 bis 10 IQ-Punkten (Quelle)

Ich habe oft Fragen/Aussagen wie „Wie kann es heute noch Inzest geben?“ oder „Ich verstehe wirklich nicht, wie es heute noch Zwangsheiraten geben kann“ gehört, meist von wohlhabenden Menschen aus der „entwickelten Welt“.

Hier ist meine Theorie, warum Inzest und Zwangsheiraten immer noch existieren und in bestimmten Fällen sogar rational sein können:

Stellt Euch vor, man lebt in einer sehr armen Umgebung, in der die geografischen Bedingungen (Bodenfruchtbarkeit, Klima, abgelegene Berg-, Wüsten- oder katastrophengefährdete Gebiete) so unwirtlich sind, dass man sich kaum ernähren kann. Das hat zwei Konsequenzen. Erstens ist die Bevölkerungsdichte eher gering und die Mobilität eingeschränkt, was die Möglichkeiten, nicht verwandte Partner zu finden, verringert. Zweitens führt diese Armut dazu, dass Familien konsanguine Verbindungen bevorzugen, um Eigentum oder Reichtum innerhalb der Verwandtschaftsgruppe zu halten. Ein niedriges Bildungsniveau und mangelndes Bewusstsein für genetische Risiken tragen ebenfalls dazu bei. Dies führt zu einer low-trust-Gesellschaft, in der das allgemeine Vertrauen in Fremde oder Institutionen minimal ist.

Unter solchen Umständen kann es für ein Mädchen rational sein, ihren Cousin zu heiraten (mehr Vertrauen) oder ihren Vater ihren Ehepartner auswählen zu lassen.

Dies führt zu einer Rückkopplungsschleife: Geringes Vertrauen fördert Inzucht (hohe Blutsverwandtschaftsraten), um familiäre Bindungen zu erhalten, was wiederum eine breitere soziale Integration verhindert und eine clan-hafte Dynamik mit geringem Vertrauen aufrechterhält.

Inzucht und Geografie

Hier eine Karte mit Inzuchtstatistiken. Je dunkler das Blau, desto höher die Inzuchtrate.
image.png Quelle. Weitere Daten hier

Es ist eine Tatsache, dass Regionen mit hoher Inzucht eher unwirtlich sind (was historisch gesehen jedoch nicht immer der Fall war). Und es gibt viele Länder mit ähnlichem oder geringerem Wohlstand (z. B. Bolivien), die sehr niedrige Inzuchtraten aufweisen.

Werfen wir nun einen Blick auf die folgende geografische Verteilung:

Anstatt hier über bestimmte Ähnlichkeiten zu spekulieren, habe ich grok (KI) eine Korrelationsanalyse durchführen lassen:

Basierend auf Daten aus globalen Quellen zu religiöser Demografie und Blutsverwandtschaftsraten (vor allem Cousinenheiraten als Indikator für Inzucht) ergibt eine Korrelationsanalyse einen Pearson-Korrelationskoeffizienten von etwa 0,85. Dies deutet auf eine starke positive Korrelation hin: Länder mit einem höheren Anteil an muslimischer Bevölkerung weisen tendenziell höhere Blutsverwandtschaftsraten auf.

Die katholische Kirche verbot 1215 (Viertes Laterankonzil) die Heirat zwischen Cousins ersten Grades. Und schon zuvor gab es strengere Beschränkungen. Jüdische Gemeinschaften haben Inzucht historisch durch eine Kombination aus religiösen Gesetzen, kulturellen Praktiken und in der Neuzeit durch genetische Untersuchungen und Aufklärung verhindert. Seit biblischen Zeiten (ca. 1200 v. Chr.) haben sie ihre Abstammung aufgezeichnet, teilweise um die mit Inzucht verbundenen genetischen Risiken zu mindern. Der Islam hingegen erlaubt Ehen zwischen Cousins ersten Grades, und sogar Mohammeds Tochter Fatima heiratete ihren Cousin ersten Grades.

Was sind die Gründe für diese inzestfreundliche Kultur in islamischen Ländern (die unverändert bleibt, selbst wenn z.B. Pakistanis nach England migrieren)? Ich weiß es nicht. Aber ich bin mir sicher, dass diese wahnsinnige Kultur der Kern so vieler Konflikte ist, nicht zuletzt in Gaza, Judäa und Samaria.

Vorteile von Inzest

Neben den Nachteilen, was sind Vorteile von Inzest? Ich kann nicht ausschließen, dass hier (mehr oder weniger gut versteckter) Sarkasmus im Spiel ist.

  • weniger Vertrauensprobleme
  • geringere Kosten für die höhere (Hochschul-)Bildung der Nachkommen
  • geringere Wahrscheinlichkeit einer Scheidung (da die Erwartungen an den Partner geringer sind)
  • Bei einer inzestuösen Ehe müssen weniger Menschen eingeladen werden. So müssen weniger Menschen reisen, was den CO2-Fußabdruck verringert.
  • Was noch?

Have a great day,
zuerich

PS Wie viele Follower verliere ich durch diesen Post?

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6 comments
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"So less people have to travel which lowers the carbon footprint."
Haha, good one!

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We all came here for the pros ! 🤣

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Sehe ich auch so, die triste Situation wird durch den aufgrund der Inzucht sinkenden IQ noch perpetuiert. Die einzige Möglichkeit, eine grundsätzliche Reform inkl. Inzuchtverbot, hat der Islam leider wirkungsvoll blockiert.

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(Edited)

Super interesting topic. I had a deep dive into how the ex-Soviet Muslim countries treat this. In ex-Soviet Christian countries, people consider cousin marriage a taboo (in families with Christian heritage). Georgians and East Slavs all think it's like marriage with a brother/sister - ugly and shameful. I never met such a couple in my life and never heard. In Muslim ex-Soviet countries, it happens.

Sharing some data.

Let's start with Kazakhstan:

Since ancient times, a rule known as 'Zheti Ata' operated on the steppe, prohibiting marriages between relatives up to the seventh generation. This helped preserve the purity of genes and prevent severe hereditary diseases in descendants. However, the recent surge in Islamization has called these laws into question. - source

Azerbaijan. From mass media, 49000 marriages yearly happen in Azerbaijan, and around 2000 marriages between relatives (between cousins or uncle + niece). Thus, it's 4% - much lower than in the Middle East. News:

The law banning marriages between close relatives came into force on July 1, 2025. According to the new regulations, marriages between the children of siblings who share a common grandfather or grandmother, as well as between biologically related cousins, are completely prohibited. Under the new law, all individuals applying for marriage are required to provide a birth certificate and documents about their parents to determine the degree of kinship. If violations are detected, administrative or criminal liability will apply... ..This measure, according to the lawmakers, will help protect children from serious illnesses. The number of sick newborns is increasing every year, as is the number of marriages between relatives. - source

Uzbekistan, 2024:

In Uzbekistan, authorities want to ban marriages between blood relatives along the collateral line, that is, between cousins. According to officials, such unions are a cause of congenital defects in children. One study claims that almost 10 percent of children with genetic disorders born in Uzbekistan last year were the result of consanguineous marriages - source

Kyrgyzstan:

there are many such marriages - from an article "Marriage with a cousin: allowed or fashionable?"

Tajikistan (non-Turkic), 2016:

From now on, in Tajikistan, it is forbidden for first cousins to marry, as well as for uncles and aunts to marry their nieces and nephews. It should be noted that the practice of marrying close relatives is widespread in Tajikistan, especially in the mountainous and rural areas of the republic. According to the country’s Ministry of Health, about 30–35% of children with disabilities are born to parents who are closely related, which is causing serious concern among the authorities. There are cases where four children in a single family have developmental disorders, and they were born to couples in close-kin marriages. Children who are deaf or blind are born to otherwise healthy parents. We conducted a nationwide survey, and the results revealed that the cause of the disabilities was precisely the factor of consanguineous marriages - source

Turkmenistan - ??

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Today a post about an ugly topic that has very severe consequences: incest / inbreeding

Dear @zuerich ! Guten tag!

I agree with you! The world I live in today is experiencing a surge in marriage, childbirth, and divorce due to the economic crisis. The number of broken families is also skyrocketing!

So, There is a growing social acceptance of informal incest/inbreeding for population growth.
Although this is an unproven rumor, there is also a rumor that a daughter commits incest with her father to prevent him from marrying another woman.

There are unconfirmed rumors that the daughter lives with her father and commits incest until she becomes independent.

I hope you don't mind my awkward and rude English!

Danke gut!

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