RE: Discrimination - pros and cons

Dear @zuerich,

There is so much here, that I can't address it all in one comment. I don't know about laws in other countries. You and I previously addressed the issue of the Civil Rights Law of 1964 in the U.S., which I consider a necessary advance in civil rights. To understand why I believe it can never be considered a mistake we have to go back to the end of the Civil War, almost exactly 98 years before the signing of that law. While slaves were freed across the country at the end of the war, it took three amendments to grant them rights as citizens. These amendments didn't help much in the south. After the withdrawal of federal troops, protection for freed slaves was removed (1877). Segregation and denial of basic rights became enshrined in southern law. The Supreme Court was no help. In 1896, in Plessy v Fergusson, segregation was given the imprimatur of the Court. Jim Crow was unassailable in the South after that. Blacks weren't just second class citizens--they had nowhere to turn. The three Civil War amendments (13, 14, 15) didn't help them. The Supreme Court didn't help them. Not until '64 were sweeping mandates made that prohibited discrimination across the board, in public places. The law was not well received in the south, and in other places also. At least now, though, with the law's passage, blacks had a right to appeal their unequal treatment, everywhere in the country.

I can never consider that law a mistake.

I'll address one more part of your discussion: discrimination based on opinion. In the U.S., a worker's opinion is not protected. An employer can fire a worker without cause, unless that worker can prove the firing was a result of discrimination related to protected status (race, religion, color, sex, and national origin). There is no freedom of speech at work. As long as the speech is not related to a person's protected status, speech can get your fired (there are exceptions to this, such as organizing a union).

You seem to consider gender identity as an aspect of opinion. Gender identity is a matter of biology and psychology. We don't have a working definition of gender. It seems to exist on a sliding scale. Even gender at birth doesn't help. Some babies are born with ambiguous sexual traits, so the parents pick their gender. Some 'females' have more progesterone than other females. Some males have more estrogen than other males. And we certainly don't understand sexuality. Gender and sexuality are complex subjects--not for most of us, but for many of us. I certainly wouldn't characterize gender and sexuality as opinion.

I think I've used up enough space here. A fascinating, necessary discussion. I do have more thoughts (ex: religions extremism. How do you define that?) but I'll stop...although you do give me an idea for a blog.

I think it's great that you are willing to address this issue openly, that you offer it for discussion. That's what we need. Less fighting, less anger, more discussion. We have to step out of our comfort zones and try to see things from another perspective. We won't change our minds, but at least we'll be aware that there are other opinions out there, and that these are arrived at thoughtfully.
Thanks for the discussion.

Regards and respect,
@agmoore