How the conflict ends
It would be extremely difficult for me to accept a simple explanation of how Ukraine ended up at war with Russia. And, I believe, anyone who summarizes the conflict in a one liner is just being lazy in my opinion.
The first stone
It's important to know who attacked first, because if we don't start from this verifiable fact, we can't really expect to operate in reality.
It's also important to know that the invasion that began Feb 24, 2022, was also not the first time Russia had invaded Ukraine in recent history. And, because we have precedent of how Putin operates and thinks, this also has to be taken into consideration in order for us to form a cogent opinion about this whole thing.
About Zelensky
We can have personal opinions about the man, about his qualifications, and God knows I have my reservations about the man too. The way he came into power was also very unusual, but to make everything that happened, and that is happening about the man, is to miss the forest for the trees.
The relationship that the US has developed with Ukraine, with Zelensky can be scrutinized, and arguably should be, but all the propaganda that is being created to muddy the waters is distorting everything and rotting people's minds.
I've seen people attack Zelensky for being a Nazi and also a Zionist, and I would not be surprised if some people held both ideas in their heads at the same time.
Also, the idea that Zelensky is some sort of dictator seems rather ridiculous as well. It's easy to verify that the law in Ukraine states that if they are under war, under martial law, elections are postponed until they are not. But again, today we prefer narrative over facts, and that is how the propaganda war works.
America's interests
Granted I'm neither an expert nor a prophet to predict what could happen if America decided to change the way it's being doing things for decades. We know now, without a doubt, that America's international policy has more to do with selling weapons than diplomacy and that is by design.
So when I hear that the US has to foot the bill for a War across the pond, what I truly understand is: "We gotta make our monies here"
Aside from the fact or should I say, the possibility that most Americans don't want a single penny to go to Ukraine, we can't say that what America has been doing is beyond reproach, above the tentacles of corruption either. To put it plainly, the "help" we are giving Ukraine is not entirely for the love of democracy.
That being said...
The ramp off, Negotiations
Trump said in his campaign plenty of times that he would end the conflict in one day. It was one of those promises that made people cheer as if everyone had a relative in Ukraine, but alas the snippet of undefinable action was effective at rallying troops at least.
Now, we know that he was being hyperbolic at best, but at least most of us hoped that the war would end, and that US would stop spending money fixing other countries, without addressing the blatant problems we are facing domestically.
Because we should be living in reality, we assumed, or at least I assumed, that when Trump was back in the chair, he would have conversations with Putin and Zelensky. I hoped that a compromise would be met, and that we could finally put this whole thing behind us, but things are not looking that great.
I'm having a hard time grasping, understanding how our current situation even came to be. We have Trump, the president of the US negotiating peace with Putin, without having Zelensky being part of said conversation.
What am I to conclude here?
I guess if we lived in the times of Monarchies what we are witnessing would make a lot of sense. Two kings negotiating the future of a small kingdom, without the "weak puny king" being part of said negotiation was probably how things worked back then, but I thought we were past that point. I guess, I was wrong.
Past that point?
Hahah this war is as complex as the FIRST war humans waged!
Primitive nonsense!
Only the weapons have changed.
like that old saying... the more things change, the more they stay the same.
Did anyone believe Trump could stop the war in a day? He is a champion bullshitter. He also seems to think of everything in terms of money, so Ukraine is a source of minerals and Gaza is a development opportunity. Does he talk much about the people?
Despite what he says Russia invaded Ukraine and he seems to be up for giving Putin whatever he wants. We need more fact checks.
Trump will talk about democracy and free speech, but his tactics are from the dictator playbook.
Trump has been saying Zelensky started it... he's repeated this lie a lot in the past week, and you know what? It worked.
Worked with who? Certainly not with most world leaders, but I have no idea what the US people see. I can guess what appears on Twtr and other propaganda channels.
All his lies need to be called out.
His base ate it all up, and is basically making Zelensky "the villain" of the story. Not to recommend anyone to take a peak at twatter, but... gosh
How big is his 'base'? Looking online can give a false impression. Less than half of the votes went to him on a turnout of 64%, so not as decisive as he may make out. Of those voters there will be a range of reasons for voting that way.
See the Guardian factcheck on actual amounts spent. Europe gave more than the US. That 'beautiful ocean' is no barrier to ICBMs.
I get that he's trying to massively cut spending to justify tax cuts, but this will massively change the balance of power in the world. The fall-out (not the nuclear kind) will hit a lot of Americans, including the MAGAs, but obviously not his rich friends.
The tax cuts proposed already benefit the 1% - the promise for no taxes on tips and overtime is notably absent from his proposed laws.
It worked the same way Bush got the TSA to work to make airports a pain for perpetuity! Of course they showed us a bunch of 9/11 propaganda and news headlines and the guy gave speeches - But which of us normal people ever actually agreed with any of it??
I sure didn't!
As for this situation here, it is true that I saw Putin start it, so why must Trump lie?
Even more tragically, is that Putin started it just after Covid had made all of humanity to suffer. As if to mock the light of the sun, now that the plague had finally begun to subside, or at least sufficiently normalize.
To bring up physical conflict and violence makes a mockery of the idea of trying to save lives during a plague - What did we save them for? The meatgrinder??
But in this day and age, things take the twistiest of turns, considering the existence of ROBOT warfare - Drones and anything like it are things that I consider forbidden. Humans mustn't use robots to hurt each other!
That's a very bad precedent that I consider forbidden!
To me the only logical explanation as to why he has to lie about this is to justify the fact that Zelensky is not part of the conversation. Making him to be the bully, makes his absence a necessity.
It make sense if you think with a Machiavellian head.
I wasn't expecting much to be honest as promises made during campaigns are not always, or hardly ever respected, but what Trump and Vance are doing is shocking and I have a feeling that this is just the beginning. Bullying countries because they have the power to do it? Is that a good idea?
I don't see how this ends up in any way shape or form OK for anybody... I feel like Putin just got the green light to do his worse.
Exactly!
You're right in that the Ukraine isn't, nor has it ever been, a region with a simple history. The Ukraine means 'borderland', and since deep into prehistory it has been the back door into Europe that has incessantly driven invasion, conquest, trade, and innovation as well. From the W. Asian steppes came pastoral agriculture, the wheeled cart and chariot, dairy, and always war, since the glaciers that prevented Europe from being habitable at all receded.
Lenin created the Ukraine in the 1920s, and up to it's dissolution, the Soviets added bits and pieces to it from the neighboring states then part of the USSR. From the birth of the Rus in Kiev under Varangian and Viking traders, to the domination of Asia to the very gates of Europe by the Mongols, over and over again the Ukraine has been the mangled borders of contested imperial power, ethnic, and economic conquest. Today is nothing new.
The historical record is written, and easily available to anyone that seeks it. The gateway to Europe has ever been the prize of warlords, empires, and profiteers, and this has never changed, though the USSR had pressed it's imperial boundary well beyond it into the heart of Europe, and tried to turn the Ukraine into the heartland of that empire, rather than it's boundary.
IMG source - deep in the Stygian depths of darkness known as /pol/
As corruption and profiteering fulfilled Dmowski's prophecy for decades, the collapse of the USSR cast the Ukraine loose of it's bonds to empire, and then the adventurous and least ethically constrained of criminals hell bent on profiting from corruption have pitted it's many ethnic groups, Greeks, and Bulgarians, Jews and Turks, Russians and Romanians, Hungarians, and Poles, Tatars and Cossacks, one against the others, and in the early 2010s a unique blend of Jews and Nazis was wielded by Ihor Kholomoisky as gangs of armed thugs to take over factories and commercial businesses in the Ukraine. Azov, Right Sector, and the neonazi street thugs became mercenaries - and the perfect vehicles for more advanced corruption by CIA and Mossad, to enable the Ukraine to be conquered just as the commercial enterprises had been.
IMG source - some anonymous reporter of facts that somehow avoided decapitation
From there the record of biowarfare labs, NED/CIA trained agents provocateur, and the Maidan overthrowing the fragile democratic government - just as Dmowski had predicted - is pretty well known. When in 2014 the Fascists, now CIA trained revolutionary forces began burning Russian speaking people alive, sniping police and protestors alike, and shelling the Russian speaking peoples of the Donbas, Russia moved to secure it's Black Sea fleet in Crimea, and when Ukrainian troops massed on the border of the Donbas to ethnically cleanse it of Russian speaking peoples, most of whom had extended families in Russia, the Russian military quickly acted to prevent that genocide, driving elite military forces to the edge of Kiev and prompting Zelensky to surrender.
After all, he had been elected on a peace platform, and only after being threatened by the well armed Fascist gangs had he undertaken war - and the endless flows of money from the West. That is when Russia pulled back to enable political reorganization of the Ukraine to be undertaken, when BoJo visited Zelensky and the Ukraine betrayed their agreement with Russia, using the Russian retreat to get it's forces in position to start the protracted conflict that has ensued.
Zelensky never was more than a puppet to the imperial forces doing battle over the corrupt profits to be made in the Ukraine. After he was elected by the people of the Ukraine to move towards the EU, peace, and they hoped, prosperity, the outrageous profiteering forces quickly subsumed democracy with military force. Zelensky was never more than a mouthpiece for Kholomoisky, who funded his campaign, and has only played his part as a plucky President of a war-ravaged country pleading for resources plundered and kicked back, sold on the dark web to Mexican cartels. There is no role such a patsy of profiteers has at the table when the actual warlords are talking.
That's about as simply and briefly as I can put it.
Thanks!
I'm going to dedicate a good hour towards learning and verifying this information. Thank you for sharing it.
I am sorry to have to open that gateway to you, as it isn't pretty no matter what side you try to look at it from.
"deep in the Stygian depths of darkness known as /pol/"
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