RE: Erosion of America’s Moral Credibility
You are viewing a single comment's thread:
The Alien Enemies Act of 1798 does not specify any due process. It favors expediency over elaborate legal procedures. In this regard, there was due process according to that law.
However, the law does specify that the war must be declared on a foreign nation. It may possibly be challenged on that basis. Two things could come of this. The first is that the law is challenged and the Supreme Court issues a ruling that gangs are not valid targets of the Alien Enemies Act. But the elaborate legal process can still take years to argue. The second possibility is that Congress changes the Alien Enemies Act to include or exclude gangs as valid targets of the law. Neither is something that happens quickly, particularly in the present political climate.
As far as checks and balances go, the Judicial branch has no power over how the Executive carries out a war, and has refused to attempt it. Ultimately the argument will hinge on upon whether declaring war on gangs, as stated previously, is a valid war. If not, then that changes things.
As far as innocent until proven guilty, the deported persons were already in the immigration process, which already is an admission of illegally entering the country. This is where things get murky when combined with a war declaration. There is an admission of guilt combined with wartime powers. You could argue that the guilt does not include admission of gang affiliation. But it's evident that this has little effect.
Ultimately, due process is slow. And I'm sure that due process is already taking place with legal challenges. It is not unique to this situation. It is common for people who are alleged to have committed a crime to be imprisoned until their trial convicts them or sets them free. In this case, the deportees will remain in prison until the legal process works out what to do. So far, nobody has pointed any legal precedent that applies to these circumstances. These are just facts.
In my personal opinion, the impact that this has is deterrance of any aspiring immigrants from entering the country illegally for risk of being declared a foreign enemy and being shipped to El Salvador. And it also encourages people already in process to self-deport, if their claims for asylum are tenuous. Therefore, I think it is to Trump's present advantage to have these mistaken deportations sensationalized in the press as it suppresses the desire to enter or remain in the country illegally. In this regard, sensationalizing these deportations is more helpful to Trump.
Thank for your adding clarity to this conversation. You seem to make a lot of sense to me. It's really about deterrence, above anything else.
I'm afraid though we are playing with fire here. Most people don't apply nuance. We are feeding the flames of Xenophobia, hoping it won't burn down the houses.
Let me ask you. How does sending American citizens to El Salvador make you feel?
In general, sending American citizens to a maximum security prison in El Salvador would be excessive.
In particular, we aren't just talking about any ordinary American. If they are affiliated with any of the international gangs, I could see how that would be appropriate. If they are in prison in the United States or El Salvador, I don't see that it makes much difference where they are kept. The distinction is that these gangs are terroristic in nature. When they target you, they don't just kill you, they also target your family, friends, or others who were at the wrong place at the wrong time. Nobody is safe from them. They terrorize everybody.
I'd be less inclined to send out a domestic gang member.
I'm also sympathetic to people who are mistakenly identified as gang members. I am well aware that the legal process can go wrong by imprisoning people who are innocent. This is why I don't give too much weight to "due process". Due process can also convict innocent people. In fact, you should want people to be convicted without due process, when required by law, as it can be appealed and overturned. It's much harder to be set free when you were convicted with all due process. Anybody sent to El Salvador by mistake is tragic. One can only hope that a good attorney can get them released.
We must also be careful about having false compassion. We can't have more sympathy for criminals than for their victims. So when you ask about deporting Americans, are you asking about people who commit or participate in horrendous crimes, often multiple times? What can you do with people like that? One can only hope that they come to regret their actions and learn to be better people. But that will have to be between them and God, because they certainly have not proven that they can be trusted amongst humans.
this is why I'm worried. It's easier for people to dismiss my concerns by presenting my position as if I'm advocating to let criminals roam free.
But, I don't think the best way to kill rats is to burn down the house.
The Aliens enemies act opens the door for being too imprecise to actual tackle the problem without massive collateral damage. This has always been my fear.
Of course I want safe streets, of course I want gang members in prison. But, without due process we are likely to screw the pooch, as we have already. The story of the gay barber even had Rogan speak out on this very subject, and as we all know, he's very much a supporter of the current admin.
Actually the Alien Enemies Act does NOT require war to be declared on a foreign nation. That is just one of 3 options. The others are directly applicable to criminal terrorist gangs invading the USA and are the basis of Trump's executive order.
What are the others?